Friday 15 Podcast

Do Managers Have Too Many Direct Reports in B2B?

Brian Beck and Andy Hoar examine the trend of delayering organizations and whether managers with 15 direct reports can effectively lead their teams.

Friday 15 Podcast

Key takeaways

  • Google avoided a breakup but must share clickstream data with competitors to help train other search and AI tools, with Alphabet adding $234 billion in market cap following the decision.
  • Gartner reported the ratio of employees to managers has gone from 5 to 1 in 2017 to 15 to 1 in 2023, a 3x increase in direct reports per manager.
  • Google cut 35% of its managers of small teams, Intel eliminated 50% of its management layers, and Estee Lauder and Match Group each cut management ranks by 20%.
  • Salesforce CEO Mark Benioff stated that 50% of customer service interactions that previously required 9,000 human CSRs are now handled by AI agents.
  • A Master B2B LinkedIn poll found 89% believe 15 direct reports is too many for effective management, with 0% saying it is the right number.

Google avoids breakup

Google avoided a breakup but must share clickstream data with competitors to help train other search and AI tools. The Justice Department originally wanted Google to sell Chrome and Android, but the judge determined this was unwarranted given how the search market has changed with OpenAI, ChatGPT, and Perplexity emerging as competitors.

Alphabet added $234 billion in market cap following the decision. Apple added $130 billion because the $20 billion annual payment from Google to be the default iPhone search engine remains legal. The hosts noted another pending lawsuit about whether Google holds a monopoly with online advertising technology.

The delayering trend

The Wall Street Journal reported that bosses no longer have time to talk to employees. Gartner found the ratio of employees to managers went from 5 to 1 in 2017 to 15 to 1 in 2023. Google cut 35% of its managers of small teams. Intel eliminated 50% of its management layers. Estee Lauder and Match Group each cut 20%.

Your boss does not have time to talk to you. The ratio has gone from five employees per manager to fifteen. That is three times as many people to manage.

Brian Beck, Master B2B

CEOs celebrate reductions

CH Robinson CFO Damon Leaf told investors that processes are now human light. The company reported 35% increased productivity despite nearly 8% drop in revenue. The hosts questioned whether forced productivity, where remaining workers must do more with less, represents genuine improvement or simply pushes accountability to individuals.

Salesforce CEO Mark Benioff stated that 50% of customer service interactions previously requiring 9,000 human CSRs are now handled by AI agents. The hosts noted this could be partially a PR stunt to reinforce their AI technology positioning, but some truth exists in the claim.

Practitioners say too many

A Master B2B LinkedIn poll found 89% believe 15 direct reports is too many for effective management. Zero percent said it is the right number. Brian noted that managing more than five or six people is difficult because managers end up reacting to events rather than thoughtfully developing employees.

The hosts identified confusion, burnout, and incomplete decision-making as key risks. The situation may become self-fulfilling: managers cannot manage 15 people, fail, get replaced by someone managing 30, who also fails.

There is going to be a survivalist dimension to this. People are going to get voted off the island. Whoever is left is probably going to be a lot more productive but also a lot more stressed.

Andy Hoar, Master B2B

Is AI the answer?

The hosts acknowledged that AI may eventually address some management gaps. ChatGPT could write performance reviews. Software could track performance. The Salesforce model of 50% humans and 50% AI agents working together may accidentally be correct.

However, oversight remains necessary whether managing AI agents or humans. The hosts suggested that mentorship may shift from internal managers to peer networks and external communities. This resembles the offline to online transition where skeptics said you could not productize product knowledge, but people found ways to make it work.

The experiment continues

The hosts concluded that companies are pulling chairs away and watching who gets a seat. Some will figure out more effective ways of working. Some will not. This is Darwinian. Winners will be more productive but more stressed, using technology to compensate for missing human support.

Frequently asked questions

What happened with the Google antitrust ruling?

Google avoided a breakup but must share clickstream data with competitors to help train other search and AI tools. The judge determined that forcing Google to sell Chrome and Android was unwarranted given how the search market has changed with OpenAI, ChatGPT, and Perplexity emerging as competitors. Alphabet added $234 billion in market cap, and Apple added $130 billion because the $20 billion annual payment from Google to be the default iPhone search engine remains legal.

How many direct reports do managers have now?

Gartner reported the ratio of employees to managers went from 5 to 1 in 2017 to 15 to 1 in 2023. Google cut 35% of its managers of small teams. Intel eliminated 50% of its management layers. Estee Lauder and Match Group each cut management ranks by 20%. A Korn Ferry poll found 40% of global professionals said their companies had slashed management ranks. The hosts expressed skepticism that anyone can effectively manage 15 direct reports.

Why are companies delayering?

Tech companies overhired during and after the pandemic and are now correcting. Other companies are taking advantage of the opportunity to remove positions they consider quasi-redundant. Wall Street rewards cost reduction, with lower headcount translating to higher stock prices. Some executives like Salesforce CEO Mark Benioff are stating that AI agents now handle 50% of customer service interactions that previously required 9,000 human CSRs.

What are the risks of delayering?

The hosts identified confusion among teams, burnout, and decisions made on incomplete information as key risks. Managers cannot effectively develop 15 employees, write thoughtful performance reviews, or do their own work simultaneously. The situation may become self-fulfilling: managers fail because they cannot manage, get labeled as underperforming, and are replaced by someone now managing 30 people who also fails.

Is AI the solution to delayering?

Salesforce reported that AI agents handle 50% of interactions that previously required human CSRs. Some companies are listing AI agents on org charts alongside human staff. However, the hosts cautioned that this remains experimental. The Salesforce approach of combining 50% humans with 50% AI agents may accidentally be correct, but whether AI can replace human judgment, mentorship, and leadership remains unproven.

Will the management model change?

The hosts suggested the traditional model of one-on-one meetings and mentorship may be outdated. ChatGPT can help with training. Peer networks like Master B2B may provide mentorship that previously came from managers. The hosts noted this resembles the transition from offline to online commerce, where people initially said you could not productize product knowledge but eventually found ways to make it work.

Sources & methodology

  1. Friday 15 Podcast, Master B2B
  2. Google antitrust ruling
  3. Gartner, manager to employee ratios
  4. Wall Street Journal, delayering article
  5. Salesforce CEO statements
  6. Korn Ferry poll, management reductions
  7. Master B2B LinkedIn poll, September 2025
Andy Hoar Andy Hoar
Co-Founder, Master B2B

Andy is a Co-Founder of Master B2B, founder of Paradigm B2B and author of the book Bot2Bot: The New Future of B2B Commerce. Andy is one of the leading global authorities on B2B commerce strategy.

Brian Beck Brian Beck
Co-Founder, Master B2B

Brian is a co-founder of Master B2B, Managing Partner of Amazon agency Enceiba, and author of the book "Billion Dollar B2B Ecommerce." Brian has also been C-level digital commerce executive with two decades of experience.

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